Thank you….For killing my brother??
First off, I’ve been loving the The Wall scenes in Season 5. Since the Battle at Castle Black everything has been pretty action-packed up North. A big part of the Northern upswing has been the introduction of King Stannis around Castle Black. Like every other man of a certain age, Stannis has taken a liking to Jon Snow. Stannis’ previous guy crush, Davos, even tried to explain Stannis’ complex feelings for Jon like a tween flirting on behalf of their shy friend. Stannis even offered to legitimize Jon Snow by removing his bastard status and rechristening him as Jon Stark, Lord of Winterfell. A big part of his offer involved Jon getting revenge on the people who betrayed and murdered Robb and Catelyn Stark. The big problem here is that the Boltons and Freys aren’t the only responsible parties for the Red Wedding.
Back in Season 3, Melisandre used leeches to slurp up some of Gendry’s King’s blood. Stannis then threw those leeches into a fire and named the three people he thought were trying to rob him of his Kingdom. Since then 2 of the people Stannis cursed, Joffrey and Robb, have died. Stannis took no part in the planning or execution of the Red Wedding, but did this fire magic seal Robb’s fate? I doubt that Jon Snow would have so much “respect” for King Stannis if he knew about his previous leech experiments.
Season 5 Stannis is a softer, more gentle monarch that everybody can get behind. (as long as your name isn’t Mance Rayder) He’s even sweet enough to teach remedial medieval grammar.
His grammar is the fury!
The Season 5 plot so far has been setting up Stannis vs The Boltons. Even Littlefinger is backing the valiant Stannis to show up and free the North from the flayed clutches of the Boltons. It just seems like in order to set this up, Stannis’ role in Robb Stark’s death has been completely swept under the rug. Its interesting to see how the producers are choosing which evil actions are “truly evil” in order to tell the story that they want to tell.
wegotbored 
You raise a fine point, but I’d still go after the primary actors in Robb’s killing.
Stannis is guilty of wanting Robb dead for (in his strict worldview) stealing the North from Stannis by seceding. But when Stannis got the news about the Red Wedding, Melisandre was delighted (since she could piggyback on the credit) but Stannis did not look pleased.
His response was to say that his enemies had made the kingdom bleed, and he wouldn’t stand for it. (I’m crazy-paraphrasing right now.) The takeaway for me was that Stannis talking about the Boltons and Freys for their dishonorable action. He’s not in that.
Stannis isn’t totally clean and great. He dishonorably assassinated his brother after telling Renly “take the night and think this over.” That was a bigger transgression since he had suggested a period of truce (the night) and then violated it. Stannis never made any offers of safe-conduct to Joffrey or Robb (although it’s a shame that he didn’t even try to make an arrangement with Robb.)
It would be interesting for Stannis to have talked to Jon about this, how he wanted Robb dead, had wished for it. But Stannis did come to the Night’s Watch’s aid and Stannis is respecting the NW neutrality when it could certainly go otherwise. And Jon and Stannis might disagree on Robb being a good guy…
Jon: My brother Robb was a good man
Stannis: The best of thieves, I agree
– but they’d certainly agree that Roose Bolton is in no way a good man. But is Stannis better than Roose? Roose flays people (well, his son has been doing the flaying lately. Roose recently admitted to having a guy hung) but Stannis *burns* people. I guess I’d rather be burned alive than, as Ramsay likes saying it “flayed living.”
Clearly Stannis + Melisandre is a bad combination. Stannis + Davos is a good combination. Since Davos is loyal to Stannis, and I freaking LOVE Davos, I have to have a measure of support for Stannis.
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Wow. Thanks as always for the input! I agree that the Boltons/Freys need to pay. I feel that Stannis’ remarks about his enemies causing the Kingdom to bleed were pointed toward the Lannisters (especially Tywin), but now that Tywin is dead it makes sense for Stannis to point his fury toward the Boltons.
The kinder Stannis 2.0 has been a valuable improvement for Season 5 but I worry that it’s just setting him up for a fall. I think they’ve kept him from mentioning Robb just to keep Stannis in a positive light so when he dies the audience really feels it once Brienne gets her vengeance.
I think Roose is still pro-flaying; he possibly hung the Miller because the Stark’s still ruled the North at the time and outlawed flaying. I’ve never put much thought into one method of execution being worse than another. Hanging/Burning/Beheading/Drowning, etc.. it’s all pretty gruesome. I don’t mind the shades of grey with Stannis since he’s always so damn literal.
Even Jon Snow has started to show some dirty tricks by spitting in a man’s eye during a fight. Also Jon fully intended on assassinating Mance Rayder in Mance’s tent after the Battle at Castle Black. I’m not sure if Westerosi customs matter North of the Wall but that would have to be violating some form of guest right since Mance had offered him a drink.
My only issue here is that they are completely sweeping Stannis’ role in Robb’s death under the rug. It just seems like a big subplot they’ve forgotten about. I’m starting to think that Lady Stoneheart will show up in the Season 5 finale and will take her vengeance on the Boltons while her apprentice Brienne takes out Stannis. It’s just a wild ass guess on my part but that would provide an explanation for why Stannis never brought up Robb, since LS will be bringing up vengeance for Robb left and right (assuming she can talk).
I’ve started to think that we’ll be getting Lady Stoneheart in the Season 5 finale. That way Brienne will have a new leader to follow in the North as they
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I totally agree. I just mentioned that Roose wasn’t flaying people, because he had been held back for years by Northern law. (I didn’t want to say Roose was a flayer if we had no evidence of it, whereas we have so much proof of Ramsay’s fondness for it. (Although the show has indicated Roose suggesting flaying some Lannister men to Robb, so it’s not something Roose would shy away from.))
I do hope that the show reminds us of Stannis’ magical ritual in regards to Robb. I kind of like everyone’s negatives and positives on display.
Now that you mention it, I’m glad Jon didn’t sleep with Melisandre, since if we follow the thread that the magical ritual was successful, then Melisandre is responsible for Robb’s death. Jon, don’t be going there!
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